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How many will be on the line at Charleston Race Week this year? How many of the next closest OD? Local fleet now at three with a couple more serious types interested.
Been asked to trim on one which is probably a good idea before buying. Still hard to go from a sportie. So, if you know of a good class legal one coming up for sale, please keep me in mind. Thank you! When you are buying a boat I think it is more important to define your budget in terms of annual running cost than initial entry cost. Part of the annual running cost is depreciation but one positive experience with the J70 is that there was a ready market when it came time for us to sell.
I have seen owners stuck with J24s as the class downsized and either couldnt sell them or had to virtually give them away. For the North East, the Rochester worlds was a swan song for several J24 owners. The running cost of the J70 was quite reasonable with one unfortunate exception more on that later. Sails , maintenance etc was not significantly different than older boats of a similar size including a J Dry sailing is now the norm in OD sailing here and you have to budget for that.
The J70 was fine to sail. You mention light air and I should say that it can be a little sticky in light air. We have a very strong Viper fleet in the North East and that was an alternative I seriously considered. I enjoyed the Viper feel a lot but my husband wanted something that was a little more sedate.
So we went for the J70 and had fun with it. The one design racing is very strong and there are some good regattas to travel to. The boat is well made. It provides a good tactical experience. The "after burners" was a bit of an exaggeration, it does not really light up downwind but it is a lot faster and easier downwind in breeze than a J You will need a strong middleman, the forces load up in breeze.
If you are going to trim, you will notice it. We felt we had a good experience and the boat was what it was represented to be. If you previously owned a sportie, you should look at the J70 as a fast keel boat modern J24 rather than a sport boat. The one disappointment was the lack of amateur racing. Most of the racing in the J70 is traveling to regattas. We found that the vast majority of teams at these regattas including paid pros on the boat. This is very different from the J24 racing.
Even in its heyday, the J24 would only have a few sailmaker teams at the front battling it out for sail reputations but the rest of us were racing on a level amateur playing field. In the J70, the amateurs are in the minority and we got a bit tired of that. If you are going to include a paid pro in your budget then obviously the running costs increase significantly and there will be less room on the boat for friends and family. Not sure about that.
Anymore than 5 people gets too crowed and in light wind, you will just sit there. Melges 24 can be sailed with crew even in heavy wind. Excellent feedback, thank you so much.
Owned a J80 for a number of years, then after sailing an old Bennett Viper years ago, I caught the sportsboat bug, sold the 80, but later got bit by the OD bug, so now back to the J If I had my way, we would all be sailing Melges 24s. Still love that boat, but interest here is elsewhere. J70 is starting to get traction, especially with older sailors, but cost may have something to do with that.
I view it as a scaled down 80 more than a sportie, but I'm surprised to hear you say it is sticky in light air. As narrow as it is, I would not have expected that. On the plus side, this mini dump truck as we affectionately referred to the 80 is way easier to travel with, and the interested parties here are all into traveling. Personally don't mind pros as long as the are not assholes. Good advice is always welcome. Agree on Melges Its an enduring classic sport boat.
We demoed and contemplated the Melges 20 which is also a nice boat.. We are a family and friends group who can do well against other friends but we all have jobs and careers so we cant match the time on the water skills of full time sailors. Its fine. As you mentioned, it is always good to get advice If a pro brings a tuning edge to a boat, the owner who paid him will understandably get a bit snotty if the pro shares that advice with boats who didnt pay for the advice. That said, we found that some owners in the J70 class were very happy to share their wisdom.
Sailmakers were also a great help. I do think that critical mass and a vibrancy to the class is important if you enjoy OD racing. It was why the J24 was a lot of fun in its day and why the J70 is a good choice today. J Boats do a great job in building critical mass. Interesting that you had a Viper in the early days. If we had gone a different direction, I think it might have been that boat. As a helm, it was a boat I liked a lot.
It had "passion". In my opinion, there is no such thing as a perfect boat. There is always a bit of compromise. The best compromise for OD racing is a fun group of people and an active thriving class. The J70 was a good choice for us for our needs at the time.. The Quantum Winter Series is a great event. Charleston will be the biggest event this year other than maybe the Worlds in Marblehead.
The Viper Class takes a sort of unique approach to pro sailors. They're welcome to sail, but you can't pay them. So they are VERY open with set-up, tuning and strategic advice.
They put the top 3 skippers up and questioned them about set-up and speed, adding in their experience. You also see pros like Geoff Ewenson sailing with his wife, though she won without him as he was off being paid to race on a Pac I'm a Cat 3 because I sail with people I've sold Vipers to. I sailed with my 18 y. He hadn't been on a sailboat in 15 years.
We had a blast as he shook the rust off. Stamped our authority on 8th place! LOL But we may soon be bumping the Annapolis fleet up to 12 boats from 9, which will be a tipping point we expect. It's all about what you're looking for in a Class, it's as much about the people and the culture as the boat. Though the boat should be fun to sail, even when you're coming in next to last! When North Sails entered a team in the J24 class, they were employees paid to be there.
When they were at J70 regattas they were paid to be there. Sorry, but I bet they are not on unpaid vacation time when they are at Viper regattas. Nothing wrong with that. But I don't see the distinction with sailmaker teams at J70 regattas. They are there to sell sails. They give helpful de briefs and they also do that in the J70 class. It's their job and it sells sails. You wax nostalgic about the J24 days, but all the major J24 regattas were won by sailmaking teams doing their job.
The sailmakers are beatable with all amateur teams. We are Exhibit A on that from last weekend. I don't care if sailmakers are there as part of their job. If they have pro friends on the boat, they aren't being paid because they can't be under class rules.
Vipers have a very different culture on that end. There are a lot of reasons we sail Vipers and not J70s. Vipers are more fun to sail and I hate reading about how a J70 is "more sedate" - the Viper is not a hard boat to sail, and there is significantly harder tuning involved to get up to speed in a J70 than a Viper. The Viper is an easy boat to sail well and it's not a scary boat to sail. The biggest issue for us in not getting a J70 is cost and ease of transport. I sail J70s with friends from time to time.
The quality of the racing is fine, but even for local stuff it's become a very expensive boat to prepare and campaign. Apparently there is now unlimited Dragon Sailing Boat For Sale Nyc hull and foil fairing after years of debate over bottom prep, bottom paint, etc. No holds barred now - that's an expensive speedshop job, and you'll have to do it if you want to compete. No hull or rudder fairing involved in Vipers, and only very limited keel fairing that it seems like most boats have yet to do.
Only one set of sails allowed per year in Vipers. No limits in 70s. My friends who are running mostly regional campaigns are still getting 2 or more sets per year to stay competitive.
They also need to own a truck or similarly beefy car to move the boat around. I tow my Viper with a Subaru Outback, which wouldn't be able to tow a J None of this involves ripping on the people or the competition - there are good people and fast sailors in both classes, but the Vipers have managed their class rules much better over the years to create a game that I want to play, whereas the 70s have not.
We owned a J We had a great time with it and made a lot of friends. You correctly identify some of the reasons why it was not hard to move on. I think you can read that between the lines in some of my previous posts. But I dont want to diminish that we had a lot of fun and have no regrets. I have also demoed a Viper, very early on at the Stonnington demo , soon after Rondar relaunched the class. I loved the feel of driving the Viper. IMHO, it is still the most pleasing boat in its category to sail.
Eventually, we went a different direction because I like to sail with my husband and he wanted something with a hood on top! I have been on the Viper twice since my original demo and it remains a thrilling boat that is remarkably easy and comfortable to sail. As a class , you have done a lot of things right. Including incidentally, I see women helms in the results and a lot of women crewing. My last post was really just calling BS on the Rondar rep when he intimated that sailmakers were unpaid Boat Sailing Course Login at Viper regattas Hey, prove me wrong I look forward to reading about Zeke H crewing with his good mate on a back of the fleet Viper with Doyle Sails Maybe I am sensitive after seeing what unfolded in the J70 class.
You have a great culture in the Viper class. Be careful to protect that culture as more sailmakers start appearing.
When I suggested that in the J70 class, it went down like a lead balloon. The drawing straws idea is creative, but I would never want to put those guys in that position where they end up looking at other sails and critiquing the design vs.
And I've definitely seen folks from North, Doyle and Ullman sail on boats they don't own that are not at the front of the fleet, but they are at least using their sails, and the owners aren't paying them to be there - just depends if it fits into their schedule and if you ask nicely. I've been pleasantly surprised over the years how if you just ask a sailmaker with enough lead time if they want to sail with you to help you get up to speed, how often they say yes, even if you're not a big customer.
Anyway, a digression. I'm happy to have pros in the game when they are helping others and improving everyone's game, without increasing the cost to compete, regardless of what Class they're in, and I'm grateful that some sailmakers have been generous in supporting the Viper Class in particular - they've done a ton to help me improve over the past 8 years.
Dont let the truth get in the way of bashing the boat. You like the Viper. Say that and move along. It is based on the fact that the faster the motion the more upsetting it is to the average person. Consider, though, that the typical summertime coastal cruiser will rarely encounter the wind and seas that an ocean going yacht will meet.
Numbers below 20 indicate a lightweight racing boat; 20 to 30 indicates a coastal cruiser; 30 to 40 indicates a moderate bluewater cruising boat; 40 to 50 indicates a heavy bluewater boat; over 50 indicates an extremely heavy bluewater boat.
The CSF compares beam with displacement since excess beam contributes to capsize and heavy displacement reduces capsize vulnerability. The boat is better suited for ocean passages vs coastal cruising if the result of the calculation is 2. The lower the better. Under 2 - Slow, under powered.
Sailboat Rigging Diagram. Toggle Navigation Menu Home. Hull Type:. Capsize Screening Formula:.
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