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On behalf of another and for commission, money, or other thing of value, arranges, offers, attempts to solicit, or attempts to negotiate the sale, purchase, or exchange of an interest in five or more motor vehicles within any 12 consecutive months, regardless of who owns the motor vehicles. Engages, wholly or in part, in the business of selling new motor vehicles or new or used motor vehicles, or used mo tor vehicles only, whether or not the motor vehicles are owned by that person, and sells five or more motor vehicles within any 12 14 Foot Jon Boat Trailer Craigslist Car consecutive months.

Offers to sell, displays, or permits the display for sale for any form of compensation five or more motor vehicles within any 12 consecutive months. Hey Don�.. I run the auctions strictly selling there. Here is the question�.. These buyers under your above post work for the wholesale operations and we know that they are not licensed dealers. Thanks Please explain��. They are, in effect, employees of the dealer. As an example, I have a wholesale license.

I could use experienced buyers to go auctions for me and pay them a fee for each vehicle. They are using my account. They are selling the vehicle. Am I understanding your comment? Hi Don, IL resident here and ever since I got my drivers liscense I have been buying cars fixing them up while driving them around and selling for profit or trading for nicer cars.

Been interested in starting to legitimize this and make things legal so I can do it with more vehicles. Can you obtain a dealers liscense and not own any kind of dealership? Fixing up cars in my garage and selling them through craigslist, local ads ect? Is the only thing holding me back from being legal a liscense?

Or is there more to it? There is no way around it. There are cheaper options you can use to find a low price business location. You also have to have a bond and insurance. Do I need to buy a car lot to legally sell cars? I live on a large rural property and I thought I could store them there, then move up to a lot. I live in WA. Jim If your rural property is zoned for commercial, YES, you can a dealer licesne at that location.

To verify or check it, contact your county zoning commission. Can a used car dealer export used cars by themselves to another country? If the used car dealer will be able to obtain export permit is that legal? Rich There no licenses or permit required for exporting vehicles. These laws will rarely get enforced. First off u say some states have limits on the number of cars u can sell! Some states say absolutely ZERO. This is BS. Basically if u sell your car its illegal. Some states u say are 2.

So if a guy owns 3 cars and decides to sell 2 this yr thats illegal also? BS again�. An individual can sell his own vehicle without a license. We are allowed to sell our personal vehicles. If you are buying and selling for profit and go over the max number for your state, then a license is required. We have to find out in each of our states the law and then decide to want to follow it or take the chance of nothing, fines or jail time.

James With a license in Texas you may sell cars in Texas. You do not sell cars on-line. To clarify. You are licensed to sell cars in Texas, that is the car is located in Texas and the sale takes place in Texas. I live in Colorado. If I had a dealer license in Texas, I could not sell cars located in Colorado. If I am doing business in a state I must be licensed in that state. Same goes for licenses for plumbers, electricians, doctors, lawyers, etc. I am explaining this because there are offers on-line to get you a license in a state other than you are going to sell your cars you will buy at auction.

Also there are companies that will co-op you with a dealer in your state. Problem: the negotiating and closing of the deal must take place at the dealer location. You cannot show cars from at your home or a Walmart shopping center with a co-op license.

Hello Don, Thanks for the info. My question is do they look at it per calendar year or for any 12 month period? I sold 5 vehicles from Last September to this August, All of the vehicles were titled and 3 were registered and my own daily vehicles.

Please explain the cars that were titled but not registered. NO license plates? Were the titles in your name? I was told when I recieve the car everything will be in a envelope with the car. I live in 14 Foot Jon Boat Trailer Craigslist Vancouver the Bay Area. When I recieved the car, the only paper work was a Title Slip from Pennsylvania. Apparently the guy I bought it from purchased the car in March and never registered it.

I was suppose to get a smog certificate from him also Ca. Is there something I should do. Any advise. Robert Visit or call the DMV, and ask what your options are. Such as reporting the guy. You need to be better informed of title and sales requirements in California the next time you purchase a car from an individual.

Can you get a used car dealer license in California, Nevada, Utah or Oregon state if you have a felony on your record? Kathy� the answer to your question vary form state to state. Some states say no. Others put a number of years since found guilty. Others will deny based on what the felony was. So you need to contact each state and find out. The best way is by phone.

Do not waste your time trying to find the answer on the net. Go the agency making the decision and ask. Good luck Don. If my brother gets dealer license in California, can I work there as salesman without valid drivers license as it is revoked!

Gurpreet On the salesperson application you must disclose any revocation of any license. You need to ask your question directly to the California DMV. The number is for general application questions. For example, a bike we purchased this Spring turned out to be too tall for my daughter so we quickly sold it and got her a different bike.

Likewise, a bike we purchased this Spring was too under-powered for my oldest boy, so we quickly sold it and got him a bigger bike. Next year i might sell be six! No one can. So, I must be missing something, or the DOR is.

What should I do? Have my attorney get a legal opinion from the lawyers in the Enforcement Division? Thanks Don. Richard If all your sales were for personal reasons. Prima-facia evidence means you have to show otherwise. I could not see the State of Colorado coming after you for the scenario you described.

So as long as a person can prove all vehicles he is selling were bought for personal use its not curbstoning? Glenn Your absolutely right. Every state has a limit from 0 to My state it is zero Colorado. Check with you state licensing group. Call them. Do not depend on the Internet for the answer. You know what used car salesmen and politicians have in common?

Your response to Richard states that there are no limits on personal sales. You then confirmed that the difference between personal sales and curbstoning is if the intention is to profit and then you say that there is a limit on personal sales. So which is it? Glenn I knew this would happen. Individuals who sell their personal vehicles have usually have driven them a few years or put a lot of miles on them and there is no profit to be made.

Each state defines those conditions in their dealer licensing rules and regulations. Now the next question is�.. I have heard these so many times is� How does the state prove your buying and selling for profit? The under lying reason for this question�.

The titles are in the databases of all vehicles sold in a state. So if the next car is sold for more than it was purchased for� the state investigators become interested. The DMV computers will spit out a report based on name and address that the number was exceeded and this is followed up by investigators when they see a profit on each sale.

Here are results of investigations by sate investigators. Alright that makes sense thanks. So in the state of Wisconsin the limit is 5 for an individual.

Would a husband and wife count as one individual or 2? Likewise if I owned a company would the company and myself count as one individual or 2? Don, Thanks for taking the time to respond to the many questions posted here.

I live in Az and as a hobby I find orphaned older vehicles to bring them back to life. After much hard work and expense I sell them on. I rarely if ever make a profit. My goal is to break even and the reward is bringing these old cars back to life.

Generally I revive two or three cars a year. The last thing I want is a knock on the door by a DMV investigator accusing me of flipping when my intentions are not to gain a profit. My questions are as follows; Can I count my labor time against the sale price?

Can I count parts I have accumulated and use against the sale price? And finally, as the bonding requirement in AZ for a dealers license is k what would a general estimate of the bond cost be?

Used motor vehicle dealer does not include a wholesale motor vehicle auction dealer or public consignment auction dealer. The bond price is is usually based on your credit score. Hi Don, thanks for your website information. What are the legal implications, if any, by buying a vehicle from Tesla mfg is in California with a Montana LLC that you control.

Ryan Question. When you say an LLC, what do you mean i. As a business partnership for dealer licensing? Or just an LLC for a business partnership? Don, I have read most of these posts and there are many good questions and answers. I too am looking into obtaining a used car dealer license. I have been very successful flipping cars in the State of Arizona and see the potential to get a license.

Do you have any advise concerning funding i. SBA loans etc? You have a good point about obtaining an actual lot, but lets be realistic. If one was to operate a legitimate business, vehicles does not pay the bills. I have a B. Degree, over 25 years in the Automotive industry and a solid business model. These use the car purchased at auction as collateral lien so the approval for obtaining a floor plan line of credit is easier than just getting a typical line of credit because there is collateral for the loan.

This and many other issues not addressed in my videos are in my manual on my website. The auctions such as Manheim provide floor plans with a third party service. Thanks for having this web site. I want to purchase a vehicle from a Utah dealer with no intent of using or registering it in Utah. I plan to sell it to a private party in Arizona. The current Utah title is in the name of the dealer.

The back of the title has a place for the assignment of the title and another place for the reassignment of the title. Can I purchase the car from the dealer and have him assign the title to me, then immediately take the car out of state and sell the car to the private party in Arizona, without getting the Utah DMV involved? I would simply fill out the reassignment of title area and give it to the guy in Arizona. Will this work? Brian The reassignment area on titles is for dealer to dealer transactions only.

Dealers do not pay sales taxes or title the vehicle in their business names. The transfer of the title by dealers is done by completing the reassignment information. Since you are buying the vehicle as an individual living in Utah, the laws of Utah say YOU must register and license the vehicle in Utah as a retail buyer. Then of course you can do anything you wish with the vehicle.

Of course, as you know, if you are buying and selling for profit, the limit is 2 per year. If you find a dealer willing to do this with you, please carefully read all the info on a title. I want to sell my personal car. Will I have to pay taxes sales or income on this transaction? I appreciate your wisdom! This is not usually applicable because we never sell personal items for more than we paid for them.

Hey Don, I have a question for you. This might have already been answered but I wondering, if I live in PA, and I decide that I want to buy and sell cars Not For Profit, simply for buying a vehicle that may need repairs, and turning it into a good reliable safe vehicle and selling it to only people who have a genuine need for affordable reliable transportation without going into debt for it, then with the money made from the sale, putting the money towards business expenses for tools equipment and other things to keep the business running, then donating the rest of the money to a local charity or church, is there any licensing that needs to happen?

Also at the time of purchase the vehicle would be registered to me, and I would file all paperwork with dmv and pay all the taxes and regulatory fees, then fix the vehicle and sell it for an affordable price, most likely well below fair market value, then when it is sold have the buyer file all the necessary paperwork and the money would go to a local charity or church and be used to purchase supplies for the business or tools or equipment or other vehicles so that there is no profit being made.

Your question is so unusual I have no idea. I recommend you contact the PA State board and ask. You will not find the answer on their website or anywhere else on the Internet. I would think if you legally formed a non-profit you could do it. In my state there are non-profits who resell donated vehicles and do not need a dealer license.

The telephone number of the State Board in Harrisburg is I would base your question on the fact you want to start a non-profit.

Otherwise I would think they would say NO. Good luck. Please let me know what they answered. Don, i am a new licensed retail dealer based in AZ. I have family in CA so i visit alot and like the auctions there.

If i purchase a vehicle in CA, advertise it online, can anyone in any state purchase it? I also have friends in the retail and wholesale car business in different states. Sometimes they request us to buy an sell to them. It is legal for me to do this even though we are in different states, correct? Kimberly Yes, you can advertise on line and sell your vehicles to anyone in any state. The vehicle you are advertising to the public must be located in Arizona.

You are licensed as a retail dealer in Arizona only, not California. Most people are not going to buy a vehicle advertised on line without seeing it and test driving it, anyway.

Yes, as a dealer, you can buy and sell to any other dealer in any state. You could buy a vehicle at a dealer only auction in California and immediately sell it to another dealer in California. This is a business to business transaction between dealers and the states are not concerned about these transactions because a consumer is not involved. I am currently a licensed retail dealer in California and I have a question. Confused about that? Chris A licensed dealer does not register vehicles they purchase from auctions or individuals.

We need to liquidate all the vehicles and trailers I have because we are selling the House. Does a flatbed and a dump trailer count as vehicles, and what about my sandrail and our 5th wheel camper?? They all need to go and I cant wait a year to get rid of them all.. Justin You are NOT buying and selling with the intent of profit.

You are liquidating personal assets. Any vehicle that has a title is considered as a vehicle under the dealer licensing laws in a state. Thanks for your question. Hope you get top dollar! You can own a vehicle without having tags on it. You get insurance, then register when you want to drive it on the road but not for the purpose of reselling a vehicle you just bought. It would be stupid for someone to buy a car, have the title transferred, then insure and register it when the only thing they needed to do legally first was just transfer the title to themselves and paying taxes before selling it to someone else.

In my state registering a vehicle is changing the title ownership i. The major cost is the title work which involves a fee, taxes and in some states personal property taxes. The license plates are in the name of the registered titled owner. There are probably hundreds of thousands of vehicles setting in barns, vacant land and in garages that do not have a current license plate. Using your example of a purchase of a vehicle without a license, but sorry as a buyer, a test drive in the field would not be enough for me.

I currently have a transportation business. I plan on liquidating about 10 of these vehicles. They were bought for a certain amount and have depreciated quite a bit. I am not flipping them or selling for a profit. Would I need to get a dealer license for this? Simply selling off assets. Joel You are selling assets not selling to make a profit. So you are not buying and selling as a business. I might recommend you consider selling your vehicles through a public auction.

It would be easier and much faster. Just a thought. Thanks for the info. I bought a car last year from a private party, and now want to sell it, in order to upgrade to a nicer one. If I sell it, does that make me a flipper?

Is there some amount of time 6 months, 12 months, 3 years, whatever between buying and selling that would cause it to be considered flipping versus just a buy and sale transaction? Does making a profit play a role?

John I can understand. It can be confusing. If you are selling a personal car that you had no intentions of buying and then selling flipping for profit, there is no issue. The issue comes about when a person intentionally buys and sells cars for profit. The question is how does the state prove it? If you are buying and selling several cars a year flipping then you are open for an investigation by the state dealer licensing group.

And they can find out. Can they catch you? I understand the intent of the question and comment. As I say often� My old Daddy taught me that was the wrong way to approach life. And he showed me what happened when I got caught violating his rules. In the example you gave there is no issue. A farmer might sell old ones and buy 5 or 6 new vehicles in a year. His intent is not to make a profit. I live in a township where it is legal to have a home based business. Currently I have a 3 car garage with plans to build a car outbuilding.

I would like to start buying and selling classic cars on a very small scale. Maybe cars per year. Is there any type of specialty car license that applies to this type of sale? Any help is appreciated! In Ohio, the last time I checked, you can buy and sell up to 5 cars a year without a dealer license. You must register and pay all taxes and license fees for each of the vehicles. Call them to verify the number of 6 or more has not changed. Oh, also check with the state: Is it per year or per 12 month period?

Still need a sign? Hi Tim We need to understand terms. A dealer does not sell online. The dealer advertises online. So whatever state the vehicle is located, then the business must be licensed in that state. The average buyer does not see a car online and then just buy it. They want to see it, touch it, drive it and negotiate. There is no such thing as an online dealer business. Well, as of now i have sold 2 small classic trailers on ebay and the customer never came in person.

Your reply leaves too many questions, such as are these trailers considered collectibles? Are they titled in your state? Do they have to have a regular license plate or a collectable plate. And many more questions. Do not answer them here but go to your state and have them give you the answer about requiring a dealer license to sell them. Flippers are like drug dealers I geuss. You make it sound like these people are steeling something.

But I would think most of them are actually honest. Then sell it. They bout the car at a fair price and sold it for a fair price.

Labor is not free at any shop I have ever worked at. So I would think the same would go for buying, fixing and selling cars.

Why can someone buy an antiq rocking chair restor it for a profit? What you did is demonize what it really is. Lol yea and you do this because its the right thing to do. You are a clown. As long as the car being sold is safe, functional, and worth the asking price and all the DMV paperwork is accurate then its no way shape or form of a crime.

Its only a crime to you and the government because you lose money. Its all money and you know it. You like to keep the little guy down. Prioritys man. Think about it. You are the problem with this country. Not the flipper. The comparison to drug dealing is weird. As one example here are the penalties for violating the dealer licensing laws in Florida.

Florida allows the sale of 2 vehicles per 12 month period without having a license. Beyond that then the following law is applicable. I live in fl and the max is 3 cars. What if me and 3 or 4 relatives buy 3 cars a year and sell them. So then you could just have your relative put the next 3 in their name. I hate fast talking, slick haired, crooked dealers. But I do have to take issue with your wholesale take-down on dealers.

The independent dealers I know started small with cars and by treating customers right grew their businesses by. No business will survive by treating customers as you painted the picture of small dealers.

So why is there not a website to search by name and address to see if someone has a dealer license and a website to report those breaking the law. Why is there no enforcement efforts with all the regulations and laws being violated so openly?

Have consumers been completely abandoned by everyone? Dina The enforcement of vehicle dealer licensing laws is usually within a state dealer licensing organization. They have investigators who respond to complaints from the public. So they have to receive complaints. They do not have the resources to go driving around to look.

They do however browse Craigslist. In the consumer laws of states and federal, the police or FBI do not arrest people. The type of consumer law violated is investigated by the government entity responsible to enforce the rules. If they find violations, they can fine or in extreme cases bring criminal charges. The police are there to protect the community.

Even when they arrest someone, they can only detain until the District Attorney decides to file charges. Anyway, you or others, that know of probably violations of dealer laws, have to report them, not to the police, but to the dealer licensing organization in the state who will investigate.

Jim A dealer does not pay sales tax on a vehicle purchase unless the dealership purchases it for internal business use, registers, titles it and puts permanent plates on it.

Example would be the car used to take service customers to work or home � shuttle service. They are not intended for vehicles that are driven everyday for dealer use. Long story short he would not give me my money back so I go ask the tag office they say no way can I change title over and it was illegal for him to sell it like that.

Paul Sorry about your situation. I hope you have a signed receipt for your purchase. I would go back to the tag office and ask how do you report fraudulent sales. I would go to the dealer and ask him what he knows about the vehicle. Another option is to approach the police and ask for help. Of all these I would approach the dealer first.

PLease let me know what happens. I get what you are saying however if I buy a car and have it registered and drive it for 3 months then sell it. Its okay because I am paying the registration tax. And its not for profit sometimes i make sometimes i lose. Car dealers have many special interest groups and lobbyist in D. C which is why there are many favorable regulations. The regulations as I read them tend to favor the consumer in most states. Manuel Yes, a dealer may pay fees to receive dealer plates.

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